Before I begin let me just start with a disclaimer—no, this post isn’t about you! This is just an observation I’ve had in the black gay community. I’m sure I’m not the only one.
From the moment I moved to New York City, almost ten years ago, I noticed many black gay/bisexual/chillin’/too-insecure-to-admit-it men who have a ridiculous fetish for Latin men. Yes, the feisty Latin lover…with the “pretty” hair, “fine” features and romantic accents. Yes, they call you “pa” and “papi”, and might go half with you on a trip to their “native” island. Isn’t it sexy?
I found this peculiar, considering no ethnicity or race is particularly fascinating to me—maybe this is geographical. I grew up in two areas, Washington State and Philadelphia, one lily white, the other predominately black. The only “Latinos” I saw were Mexicans, who have little to no African descendants and looked nothing like me. Also, there were a small cluster of Puerto Ricans in Philadelphia. Nonetheless, my life was very black and white—I still can’t tell when someone is Jewish!
I wasn’t socialized around Latinos, or more specifically, Caribbean Latinos. Actually, like many non-New Yorkers who moved to the city when they were older—I never heard of Dominicans until I moved to New York. Mind you, this is before the era of mass information and the internet at your fingertips.
I first heard the term “Dominicans” from a black gay guy in New York—I thought he was talking about a group of porn stars! “Those Dominicans can f&!k! Those Dominicans can take some d%!k! Those Dominicans can suck some d%!k!!” I thought Dominicans were some major porn troupe! Come to find out it was just an ethnicity from the Island of Hispaniola.
My non-sexual introduction to Latinos was people thinking I was Puerto Rican or Dominican…supposedly because of my hair texture and skin tone. I was a little offended being that I have so many family members from the South; there are tons of black people who are light-skinned with the same hair texture as mine. In addition, black folks come in all shades and textures—to my knowledge, I looked like every other black man I grew up with. In Philadelphia people rarely even thought I had a white parent, unless I told them. Other black people did not question my blackness, until I moved to New York City.
Interestingly enough, it was rarely Latinos who thought I was Latino—it was black gay men. “Oh, I thought you were Latin, but you’re just light-skinned.” I suddenly became less appealing because I was just a common colored boy with a white mammy. I would even meet black gay men who pulled a Christina Aguilera and said, “Well, I’m a quarter Latin.” Then there were the men who would cheer, “I’m dating a Puerto Rican guy!” As if they just won a shiny golden trophy with an uncut piece!
What shocked me the most was to hear other black gay men rant about black gay men—sounding strikingly similar to hetero black women who complain about black men. “I’m tired of these niggas! They are all trifling! We’re losing all the good black men to white men! I’m just gonna get me a Latin man!” I would hear arguments that Latinos are better men because they are more timely, more sexual in bed and even have better hygiene…hygiene? Does that Castilian blood make them stay in the shower longer? The self-hate had its own stench.
Why do some black gay men eroticize Latin men the way some white woman have a Mandingo fantasy? I understand the argument that “Latinos are black too!” However, many Latinos do not identify as black and when leaving the states race is suddenly a construct that doesn’t translate in many places across the globe.
For example, I know Dominicans who do not identify as black and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. However, I’ve met some black folks who have this hysterical issue with it…well, baby if they don’t call themselves black how does that affect us? Surely, they aren’t “African-Americans” and black is a racial identity that just started being used as a political force in the 1960′s. Why should a sixty-year old Puerto Rican woman call herself a black woman when her lifespan is older than the political term “black”?
I don’t know if gay Latinos eroticize black men the same way some of us eroticize them…I have a feeling they don’t. I remember a study years ago where various races/ethnicities were surveyed asking which race/ethnicity they identified with the most. The majority of whites identified with Asians, Asians identified with whites, blacks identified with Latinos and Latinos identified more with whites. No one identified more with blacks. Obviously, this isn’t true for every Latino, but I still believe this survey is relevant today.
Of course there is nothing wrong with dating Latin men or dating outside your race. If you find someone who makes you happy through the madness of people out there then more power to you. Nonetheless, when you romanticize a whole sector of people while criticizing another sector of people and you are part of that people—somethin’ is ah’ brewin’ that’s a bit deeper than a natural attraction. Maybe you’re seeing yourself in the black men you date. It’s challenging, compounded with being black in America, gay and maybe poor. Therefore, forming a union with someone who is a mirror image of yourself in physicality and socio-economic status might be a bit too heavy for the already wounded.
This Latin fetish actually has nothing to do with Latinos, but more to do with self-hate. Many of us are still wrapped up in someone who is light-skinned or Anglo features. So why not go a step further and obsess over a different ethnicity because it makes you feel better about yourself that you can pull someone who is your ideal fantasy? Maybe it will make you more attractive, a little more exotic, a little more timely, a little better in bed, a little more clean…
i dont understand why these black me have the fantasy about latin men. personally black men are by the most beautiful people i have very seen. the masculinity in structure, and the diversity in our race. am not saying that latin are not beautiful, quite the oposite actually. white men have these fantasy too. it funny i know alot og latin men that consider black ugly especially when they are very dark skin.
black have to stop these non sense, latin men especially brazillian men are by far the most racist people i have ever come across, in the uk. they will never give a black man a chance.
the survey is evident enough, if they dont identify with blacks, why would they would to be with me.
Guy stop this nonsense.
good post clay cane.
Thanks, Clay, for the frank spirit of your blog. As an African-American man I’ve struggled with a certain amount of hatred for my own Blackness, and am pretty sure that I’ve seen evidence of similar self-hatred in others. Internalized homophobia is a widespread poison that many gay persons strive to overcome bit by bit. Internalized “effem-ophobia” is another especially acute and pervasive form of self-hatred among us gay American men. In the same way, when it comes to Blacks in the U.S., I suspect that a greater or leser degree of internalized “negrophobia” is to be found in the backrooms of many of our psyches. All too often, that burden is a given; the only question is how far each of us can overcome it. I myself am a work in progress. And while I have dated Blacks, Latinos, and Whites over the years, ruthless honesty reveals that I’ve been a little more selective when it comes to Blacks. Meanwhile, the idea of Latinos’ being “part White” has indeed added to the attractiveness of certain individuals in my eyes.
I think your argument is flawed, Cane. I do not think interest in men of from an ethnic group disimiliar to your own equals self hate or a fetish. I think that human beings are naturally curious about eath other irrespective of ethnicity, race, gender or sexual practices. And when you live in a city like NY, you see people who do not look like everyday and are forced to interact with them.
Also flawed is your thinking about Mexicans and Africans. Some Mexicans do have African history. There are three regions in Mexico with Afro-Mexican inhabitants: Oaxaca, Guerrero and Vera Cruz, where a self-liberated ex-slave by the name of Gaspar Yanga established the first free township in Mexico (today known as Yanga)town in Mexico. You can read about the towns and about Ayana Jackson’s and Marco Villalobos’ work and study on them here: http://www.latina.com/latina/entertainment/entertainment.jsp?genre=cultura&article=cuento.
Very few Dominicans identify themselves as black because black is not valued as beautiful in The Dominican and because of Haiti’s brutal rule of DR back in the day. The Miami Herald did an excellent series on Afro Latinos in the Caribean and Latin America this summer. Google it and you will discover how Afro-Latinos are discovering their pride and are embarking on asserting their civil rights in Brazil, Nicarauga, Belize and The Dominican Republic, decades after American black did and continue to do.
If Haiti was not as brutal as they were, then the Dominicans, maybe, would have thought and behaved differently but I doubt. That same mentally that Lil’Kim and Eve have with the blond hair and contact lenses, pervades Latin America and the Caribean.
I also think the term fetish needs to be re-evaluated in your argument. A fetish is specialized. If I have a fetish for stockings, lets say, then I would expect the stockings to be presented in a certain way, not arbitrarily. A good example of this would be mens magazines like Juggs which is fetish specific. Fetishists don’t play. They know what they want and how they want it.So when you say black men fetishize Latino men, thats not specific enough for me.If you said some black men like Latino men only, then maybe I would buy your argument.
I think one reason why Latino males are prevalent nowadays is the fact that there are so many of them all over the country. We see them on tv, we pass them on the street, some of them serve us at restaurants, we share a subway car with them and often they are MARKETED TO US in pornorgraphy.
The numbers with minorities and media in this country game is played in the high millions. If there are 40 million Latinos and 18 million Blacks, and 12 million Asians, and 200+ millions of white folks, then, even in the millions, we are still a minority. The purchasing power of Latinos has eclipsed black folks and Latinos are marketed to as well as marketed by white folks who publish magazines and porno sites.
I am Latino, Asian and Black. I grew up in South America where the concept of “black” was a non issue to me even tho, behind the scenes, racial wars were being fought in my family and in the nation. It was not until we came to NYC that we had to choose who we were over our nationality. This is what America does. Hundreds of thousands of Latinos are going through this every day here. The New York Times wrote about this a while back about two friends from Cuba. One was a light skinned Latino and the other was dark. Best friends in Cuba; when they got to Miami, the story changed. Racial politics and language made them chose sides.
I identify as Afro-Latino and I like all types of men. Do I like more than others? Maybe. I like fuck short guys and be fucked by tall men. I’ve only had sex with Jamaican women and african american women but I am curious about Asian women. I might be attracted to how someone walks or chews their food, regardless of their culture. I don’t like white males but Israeli guys are hot, like some blond Swedish men. Get where I’m goin?
The fact that you never heard of a Dominican until you came to NYC is telling. Americans are clueless about the world. But if it wasn’t for NYC… you would not have learned, and not good learning either. You’re learning from people who think like you.
clay,
Thanks for posting this. check out this article on Phillipa Schuyler, a Black woman of bi-racial parentage who “passed” as Latino. self-hate.
http://www.lisefunderburg.com/writ/tragic.html
well for me my father was a black dominican raised in US since age 4 and my mom is black american. I am very proud to be an afrolatino, I defintely feel after living among both cultures the Dominican culture has heavy African elements probably alot more than the “African-american” or black-american culture which has more american components. I would say much of my dominican heritage has helped me to really embrace my Afrolatino/African heritage more as it permeates through our music (merengue, some bachata, palo,etc.) food, much of our cultural and social aspects. But you have to understand there is a fusion of cultures i.e African, Spanish, Native (taino) cultures which have created the “dominican culture” not just one dominates but the way we live our life everyday is a reflexion of all 3 components. Ppl will ask me what do I identify with? If a person saw me im more than 100% sure they wouldnt question my “blackness” but ppl who are really up on it will always ask me where are you from? this one fella asked me that question and he was like “yea you are black but got some kind of “latin” essence I dunno how but I just sense it.” lol and he guessed quite accurately that I was a caribbean latino. Mind you he had never had any interaction with ricans, dominicans nor cubans, just mexicans and central americans. In closing, I dont think those black americans who criticize dominicans for denying their african heritage fully understand, that in general aspect Dominicans as well as other Caribbean latinos would be viewed waay more intune with “African cultural elements before a black american would. and dont tell me its because the cultural aspect was stripped away. there are many ways to remain/retrieve what was lost. It just depends on how deep your passion and drive are for doing it.
Clay,
Thank you so much for identifying this disappointing practice of self-hate. It is nothing short of “selling your people up the river.” Whats worse is that I’ve witnessed it on both coasts, and everywhere in between. We can be certain that others will devalue our beauty, but to do so ourselves is damn tragic. I pray that we regain our partiality towards each other and appreciate our diverse beauty.
i agree with your blog, but then again it happens to every race.oh by the way Christina Aguilera is half ecuadorian.but her Irish features are more dominant.My mom works at Philadephia Women Shelter (domestic violence welfare) and she’s a regular donator there,real sincere girl. Her mom speaks fluent spanish (she’s irish ) ,a former spanish teacher,Fausto is an Ecuadorian meztiso. congrats on 2 years anniversary.i hope you never stop.
@anon 3:06
You took the words right out of my mouth. This is an issue very central and isolated to NY and the surrounding region. I was just having this conversation with friends the other day. They thought it was fascinating that back home, in The Midwest, any Spanish-speaking person is relegated to Mexican.
I had no clue until I moved to NYC what a Dominican was. Had never even heard of one. Puerto Ricans were just something talked about on television. I had never met one of them either. But, I had had plenty of contact with Mexicans. Just as you said, that seems to be the most put on group in the Latin diaspora, landing just barely above guatamalans and ecuadorians. LOL. Nobody wanted to associated with a Mexican. Even in NYC, if you call a PR or Dom. a Mexican, you almost have to fight.
So don’t think that the self-hate is isolated to Blacks. There’s plenty to go around. However, in this case, sometimes I think it’s just a matter of opening your borders and allowing a new appreciation of the beautiful color pallette that is Black and Latino.
I agree with this blog whole-heartedly but I believe this idea is central to New York. I was borned and raised in the South and nothing replaced a light-skinned brotha. Even when there was good-looking latino in the mix, he was still subpar to the light-skinned black guy. Down south, anything and everything latin or spanish equated to Mexican, and anyone from down south knows that Mexicans are not the ‘it’ group.
It was only until I came to NY that I began to see this romanticization of latin men…It wasn’t long before I fell prey to this latin fascination. Luckily, I have intellectual friends to call me out and keep me in check.
So my point: We would like to remain colorblind and think we like who we like because of who they are but the truth is that we are a complicated people with complicated brains. Socialization can be a bitch and black folks need the most work. Sometimes people don’t even realize that they are being judgmental, discriminatory or even exercising self hate. We have to constantly evaluate and challenge ourselves and our actions.
This post is interesting. I can see how this can be generalized into a black gay thing. But I think it depends on how its perceived.
My friends seem to think that I like only ‘Latin’ guys but when you look at my dating history, its a mixed bag of nuts. I have kicked it with the darkest of dark, to the lightest of light. But what stands out in their heads are the Latin guys. When, in reality, I have only seriously dated ONE.
I see Blacks and Latinos as different points on the same spectrum. Latinos were my neighbors and classmates and faced the same obstacles in society as me. No matter how they identify, I see them as having Black ancestry and I can relate to them because they understand my struggle more than any other group of people outside my own. Dating a PR or DR guy is like dating a West Indian guy to me. Both can relate to Af-Am culture but bring their own cultural mix to the table, and both will say they are an islander before Black when asked ‘what they are’.
Do I love one more than the other… honestly, I think its easier to date af-am black folks because of cultural similarities, but ultimately, it depends on the individual and how they treat me. I wont just date a Black guy as a statement of my Black pride. To get in the door, you have to be good looking and sincere. To stay inside, it depends on how you treat me.
And to me, that is the ultimate display of my self love. To value my own happiness over anyone else’s opinion of my choices including black folks who might judge me if that person ends up being Latino.
To me, I perceive Latinos to be a different shade of the African diaspora with additional cultural influences to my own… but ultimately Black.
If the issue is my own self-love/hate and I perceive Latinos to be Black ultimately, is there still an issue?
Anon 7:01,
I don’t think anyone here is “feeling rejected”, we are just commenting on what some see as a trend in the community.
People like what they like for whatever reason. “Self-hate”, even if it exists in some cases, is not the point. The point is some black people are sick of other black people. Let them explore their sexual desire outside and beyond the “black race”. They have the right to do this for whatever reason. What an individual likes is no one else’s business. If you feel “rejected” that’s your problem and your problem alone.
Great points, Clay. I don’t have too much to add but…
1) To the anony above me: Yes, it’s clear that Mexico has a large un-miscegenated indigenous population, but there’s just as much “mix” in that nation as in other parts of Latin America. There’s actually several great documentaries out there on the Afro-Mexican population (which is mostly populated along the coastly rural areas), La raiz olvidada, rompiendo el silencio and others. Without getting into a history lesson, there were a lot of ex-slaves and afro-seminoles that found refuge in Mexico and settled there during and after western expansion, as well as a significant Mexican influence on Creole society, etc.
2) I live in St. Louis, where the only noticable latino population is a growing Mexican community, which stays pretty separate from the black gay community (and the white gay community as well from what i’ve seen). I’m moving to Chicago next month so i’ll see how things are comparatively with their much larger latino population.
3) With the influx of immigrant communities, the image and definition of an “African-American” is evolving rapidly. I understand the resistance to exotification, but it’s a little weird to me that some of us are trying to position ourselves as the “normal,” “regular”, “we wuz herre first” black folk.
4) I think it’s important to note that while cultural and political forces have made it necessary for various “peoples” to close ranks… and even though racism is a reality, underneath it all, “race” is not.
When it comes to sex and attraction, anybody and everybody can be labeled as having a fetish. If a brotha is going through a “caliente” era, then that’s his business. But i agree that self-hate issues– be they race, body, class, religion, or nationality related– are never sexy.
MEXICANS ARENT AFRICANS. THEY ARE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. TO EVEN SAY MEXICANS ARE LATINOS DOESNT MAKE SENSE. BUT CLAY IS RIGHT THEY HAVE LITTLE TO NO OR EVEN RELEVANT AFRICAN ANCESTORY WHICH IS WHY THEY LOOK DIFFERENT THAN CARIBBEAN AND BRAZILLIAN LATINOS.
WE NEED TO STOP TRYING TO MAKE EVERYBODY BLACK.
ay si papi! ay ay dame mas! me gusta me gusta!
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF BLACK WOMEN- HOW DOES IT FEEL?
At the risk of offending everybody, I think it’s partly that Latins have something special. What that “something special” is, is hard to say. Maybe it’s the familiarity (they look like some/many of us do) and simultaneous exoticism (Spanish! dime que me ames papi). It isn’t just Black men who festshize them in NYC and East Coast–it’s white men too. Haven’t you notice that? (And notice that that “something special” I mention before applies from the white perspective too). So I don’t think the fascination so many of us have with Latins can be explained away simply as self hatred (although that plays a part, certainly).
Kai in NYC
“We’ve all met someone who’s so proud of their “1/4th” whatever, that they take the time and effort to mention it at any possible momment. Those people seem to have the “issue” with their blackness.”
I would agree with that statement,
Though conversely I would say the same for the people that never mention their mix, or tell you that their non Black American parent is part “Indian”. It’s like they are saying “Iahs Nigra”! it’s not plantation days, really, so why does a person have to go out of their way so be “down”?
It works both ways.
Interesting that they are not being accused of being a self hater.
Often (not always) the self-hating Latino lovers, have the same hang-up when it comes to United States Black Americans that are racially mixed or lighter than brown.
If it is not about the skin color or hair texture or phenotype then it is likly really a cultural connection. Which points to something a little different than self-hate. Depending on the “other” it could be a very similar African-Based cultural connection.
Many Black Americans/And many Dominicans have a LOT in common in their African Based culturs..even if they are unaware of it. You just have to look.
At the end of the day, I am not clear on how it affects anyone directly more than an anoyance?
It doesn’t affect me, I just laugh to myself and feel sorry for the person. And whomever they are with cuase they don’t really like the person they just like what the person represents to them.
I mean the people in power need all people of color (and the poor regardless of race or ethnicity – globally though they tend to be people-of-color) to remain divided so they can maintain their system of wealth/power and oppression.
So let all the people of color intra fight about who is not Black and who is better because they are not and the Black people to get mad about it instead of ignoring it and coalition building.
And the racist/oppression will continue with virtually no resistance.
Clay, a fascinating blog post, as always.
Dwight McBride discussed this more broadly in terms of Black men’s flight from “blackness” and the abhorrence and depradation of Blackness in his excellent book Why I Hate Abercrombie & Fitch. I highly recommend it. The Miami Herald had a series recently on race in Latin America, and it’s also worth checking out.
One thing I’d point out is that “Black” and “African” and even “Colored” as political terms go back to the 1600s in the US, and farther back in Latin American countries such as Brazil, Cuba, etc. They FAR PREDATE THE 1960s. (The African Society of Boston was established in 1796–I have to admit I was amazed. They weren’t playing back then!)
Also, the politics of racial and ethnic identification, particularly around Blackness, have been and are being debated in places like the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, etc., apart from (as well as in dialogue with) any input from US Black folks. The elites and race haters would like us to think this is not the case, but it ain’t Black Americans who’ve gotten the people in Rio to say, I’ve had enough of this anti-Black nonsense….
Overall, though, you make some excellent points. The fetishization of racial and ethnic difference as a means of denigrating Blackness is a very important topic to discuss in a society that continues to denigrate Blackness, and far too many of us internalize and participate in it, not only unconsciously, but consciously.
“Or possibly he is saying they are mentioning the 1/4 Latino to heighten their profile among Black men? I am not sure. That is why I asked.”
I can’t speak for the author of the piece, but I will anyway, lol.
We’ve all met someone who’s so proud of their “1/4th” whatever, that they take the time and effort to mention it at any possible momment. Those people seem to have the “issue” with their blackness.
Great thoughts, and its the whole idea of a “fetish” that I don’t get, but, to each his own since those who usually have fetishes end up alone as the fantasy is never fulfilled in real time. And like with most things with gay men, its anything but black gay men.
As for the “Mexicans, who have little to no African descendants,” that is a misconception. The African presence was strong in Mexico and there is a huge exhibit at the state museum of New Mexico and a book with the same title, “The African presence in Mexico.” There are still black communities there, but, most of the Africans have been melted into the general population but their offspring who haven’t is still discriminated against as a whole for being black. The Diaspora was as strong there as anywhere else in the so called New World, but, Mexicans have only recently even said there are/were blacks in the country, and most Mexcians don’t even know it, or the fact that the second “president” of the new republic was of African orgin.
Actually Anonymous, YOU may be the person that “wiz through the post and make a long ass comment that makes no sense”
Because
If you had actually read Mr. Cane’s blog post in detail you would remember the following sentence:
“I would even meet black gay men who pulled a Christina Aguilera and said, “Well, I’m a quarter Latin.”
That was the sentence that the majority of my comment was based on.
It seemed to me that Mr. Cane was comparing a Black gay man that identifies with his 1/4 Latino cultural heritage with a self hater that thinks Latino identified men are better than Black American identified men.
The tone of that sentence suggested in this essay that he thinks those people are somehow hate the non Latino Black part of themselves.
Or possibly he is saying they are mentioning the 1/4 Latino to heighten their profile among Black men? I am not sure. That is why I asked.
I would say also that Mr. Cane’s essay is about racial and cultural identity as it relates to sexual desire among Black men in New York City.
Wow… as a Latino man of color – sans the European features – I have benefited from the Latino fetish black men have. Luckily, I love black men and prefer dating them to all other men – including Latino men (so there goes the cock-and-bull with the survey results…) I believe if you truly luv yourself and luv and respect your culture, it doesn’t matter who you date and quite frankly, the problem you pose as almost exclusive to black men exists in every other culture…there will always be men who have fantasies with dating a specific culture – black, latino, Asian, white,etc. My problem comes when folks lose who they are for who they date.
Wow – this one is deep, Clay.
I grew up biracial and bicultural – dad is white and mom is latina (more specifically she is mostly Native American from one of the ethnic groups near Oaxaca, Mexico plus some Spanish blood and a little anglo thrown into the mix).
Bottom line, I had a choice who I identified with growing up, and hands down I LOVE my latino heritage and culture. It makes me feel loved, alive, secure, never alone and always happy.
Decimos en espanol que no puedes decir nada en ingles como puedes hablar del amor en espanol. This means (roughly) that we say in Spanish that you can’t say anything in English like you can in Spanish about love.
And that’s how I feel about it – I’m not a self-hater because I find it hard (if not a total pain in the ass) to identify with my anglo side of my family. I love them all, but I feel in my heart that I am latino. It’s just too easy to love my latino roots, my heritage and my family.
Maybe the difference is that it is part of me and I feel it. Self-haters are those that objectify us – who don’t know our culture and our language – but they get an obsession with us. How can you be part of a culture without knowing the first thing about it?
I’m glad you broached the subject of the fetishization of the ‘Latin Lover’ concept. It touches on the dangerously prevalent concept of the value system taught by colonialism through the Americas. The founding fathers in North , South and Central America stayed in power by saying that ‘white’ was perfection and the conquered masses were inferior. Its so interesting that you’re clip art is a picture from the film Vers Sud (Heading South). The female character in that picture was a British professor from Wesleyan who summered in Haiti each year due to what she felt the island had to offer : half naked black men that used prostitution to combat the ills of a being on the short end of Haiti’s very polarized economy. I recall her saying that she didn’t know what the made the men so much more attractive and vibrant there. When another vacationing woman buys Legba (the man in the picture) some new clothes , to calm her conscience into making it a tryst as averse prositution; the British woman spurns her. “He looks like some black from Harlem.” she spits.
If you can no longer objectify someone they become human and cease to be fetishes. If you reveal you aren’t Latin then I have to actually humanize you and attach some amount of dignity to you. Dignity is rarely fantasized about.
Wow. Every time I read I hear something new.
OMG GREAT POST and observation yo. VERY VERY interesting.
WHAT THE HELL IS T ZAC TALKING ABOUT? The post isnt about racial identity it’s about black men who think Latin men are better than their own black men. The post isnt saying who should rep what or what percentage they are and what they should be.
Clay gave the example of the PR woman who might look black but says she’s PR so she isnt identfying with what people assume is her appearance. He also said he doesnt care if Dominicans dont call themselves black. So what are you talking about dude????
Some of the people wiz through the post then make a long ass comment that makes no sense!
very interesting blog and something i too noticed once moving to the east coast.
while i do have an attraction to latin men i dont think it is any more of an attraction than i have to any other race of man that has what im looking for.
I have to agree with you, that self hate is sad and ridiculous.
I wonder where you met these self haters. I have yet to encounter them in New York, I guess I am lucky. I think self-haters are stupid. I avoid stupid people so I don’t have to worry.
I hope that people that claim their entire heritage aren’t grouped in with the self haters. Are they?
I mean, self haters usually talk about skin color and “good-hair” right? Or they make generalizations, “these people are this way” and “those people do this”
The only problem I have is when people from other regions of the country assume an ethnicity or experience based on a persons appearance (phenotype, hair texture, skin color, vernacular even clothing worn at the moment) and then judges them as a self hater when the person identifies as something other than expected.
For example, is a bi-racial Black/White man that identifies as Black a self hater because he identifies as Black instead of bi-racial?
What if he identifies as a Black man of multi-racial and ethnic heritage? Does that make him a self hater?
What if one parent is Puerto Rican and the other is Black American, but both parents are clearly of African origins and he identifies as Puerto Rican. Is he a self hater?
What if he was raised in a house hold of mixed-raced parents who choose to live a suburban American life with rarely a mention of their heritage? The child however, grew up identifying with the grandparents and now, unlike his parents speaks Spanish and identifies as Latino. Is that person a self hater?
From what you are saying a person who reps his whatever percentage other than United States American Black heritage is a self hater? But a person that chooses not to claim their other than United States American Black heritage is not?
Does that apply to white people that date/desire almost exclusively non-white people? Are they self haters also?
I say let them hate themselves. If a brother decides he wants to date outside of his race because he’s fed up with brothers, then that’s a brother I won’t be dating. Signed and sealed. Him being him ain’t gon’ stop me from being me and people’s dating choices and excuses or deep-seeded reasons for it have no impact on my forward movement.
As a hetero female, I think your post is fantastic and transcends sexual orientation. I respect that you write about what you know. I’ve had similar conversations with men and women who date outside of their race and claim to ‘only date’ [insert race here]. They too are living in a state of self-hate.
I will agree that some black gay men do idolize Latinos, but in my observation (and its been seven years since I’ve lived in New York City) these men did not exclusively date Latinos nor have I ever met a black man who did.
On the flip side, most all of the gay Latinos I knew exclusively dated Black men. It seems as if times may have changed since I left NYC in 2000, but even here in DC, where Dominicans and Puerto Ricans are scarce, brothers are pretty much down for brothers.
Another on point blog … I grew up in New York and as a black man of carribean and southern US decent I faced all those same high yellow issues with darker dudes … Are u mixed? U look like u got Asian in u? It was more exotic to identified as something other than full black … Now, it’s out of control. The Blatino thing is in full effect. From my experiences growing up brothers, in general, always were fascinated by the pretty latin boys, even the occasional dark Italian. But, it was also vice-versa. Latin boys sought out brothers mainly for (u know what wink, wink myth). Shoot, I even done it myself. I have always been mystified by Latins and have a thing for intact men (wink wink). Shoot, I’m even looking at Indian men now as the next hot item. But at the end of the day, I still love me a brother (hands down). All their issues are my own
Yup, across the board, it seems latin men are THE fetish. I have a Latin name. I am from the midwest and have met several Black men with the same name. It wasn’t until I moved east that peeps started questioning my background based SOLELY on my FIRST name. Keep in mind, I have dark skin and I have been told that I soung very “American” …whatever that means, but point is I don’t think I have an accent and anyone who saw me without knowing my name would just assume I’m black. And interesting enough, when I do reveal I’M BLACK and not Dominican or Panamanian, or Puerto Rican, people do appear to be disappointment as if I’ve let them down or something. And then they proceed to ask, “why is your name…” It’s definitely weird.
Damn, I didn’t know you would put this together and up so quickly…
Powerful piece, I think you should have sold it to one of those alternative mags…
Brilliant observation. I noticed this same trend when I moved to NYC nine years ago.
I particularly loved this line from your piece, “Then there were the men who would cheer, ‘I’m dating a Puerto Rican guy!” As if they just won a shiny golden trophy with an uncut piece!’”
Interesting observation, you may be right, self hate may have something to do with the admiration black gay men have for Latinos. Me, I think I’m slightly different. I must admit that I am very attracted to Puerto Rican men, however, there is nothing like a big fine good looking brotha!! I will choose a black guy over a good looking Puerto Rican every time.